Four years ago I took a stab at outlining what I think the future of immigrant/refugee settlement work is. It's 33 minutes of my sense of the future of settlement work and all the moving parts and connections.
Overall, though, I think it's still very relevant and part of the conversation we need to be having as a sector.
What follows is an AI-generated transcript of my meandering brainstorm using Otter.ai. The transcript has not been edited. It may contain errors and odd sentence breaks and is not a substitute for listening to the audio.
Marco Campana 0:00
Hi everyone. For this video I want to share some scribbles that I've been working on looking at the future of settlement work, or I guess the in some ways the future of human service work. So on the screen is a bunch of stuff that I've been brainstorming and mind mapping and just kind of playing with. And what I want to do is dive into some of it specifically, just to give you a sense of the kind of the cup is half full ideas or half baked ideas that I've been having. On the left, I'm going to start there as I've been starting basically with some scribbles that I started to put onto paper. And I've just taken some pictures and added them here, because it would take a while to put all of this stuff on the board. And maybe I'll do that eventually. But I'm interested in what people have to say. So I work in immigrant and refugee settlement work for the most part. So that's where this is kind of focused. But I think that the trends and issues are fairly similar for human service work in general. So what I started to do is look at okay, well, if we start to think about what is the future of settlement work, which a lot of people are thinking about with the advent of AI and fear of job loss, and those kinds of things, spoiler, I don't think settlement workers or human service workers need to fear job loss with AI, I think there's some really good opportunities to automate some of the boring work but but the human service work is really not going to get deeply affected at this point. So I started to look at the areas that I think are kind of important. And obviously, technology is one of them. That's not the only one though, we need to look at a lot of different pieces. And this is part of I think, partly acknowledges the complexity of human services and the human service sector that a lot of people don't necessarily think about. But within that there's competitors and disruptors, we've seen that rise up time and time again. But with technology, we're seeing it rates rise up even more. Now, partners and collaborators are always on the table clients obviously are something we need to be looking at with the future of the work that we do service competencies. Service Standards are really important increasingly so in my opinion. And there is some recognition of some of those in some sectors and not a little bit in the settlement sector. But certainly in more regulated professions like social work and things like that there's a little bit more work that's being done in this area. But also, what are the role of funders, communities and cities, and politics and leadership. So the not just the policy side of things, but also the political side of things, which has a deep impact on how we might do our work. And then looking at media broadly defined. So I'm going to start, and as you can see, these are all kind of interrelated to each other. As I've kind of been playing with it, I've been looking at where these lines might might all intersect and things like that. But let's start a little bit with technology, which is a pretty big area right now. And probably the most popular one, when we start to think about future of work. So when I think about technology in the sector, obviously computers are playing a role. But all but so too, is is mobile technology. So smartphones and things like that, we need to be thinking about social media, we need to be thinking about messaging apps. And from there, you know, we're talking about texting, but also things like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger, we need to be thinking a lot more about video. And a lot of ways I talk about this a lot in presentations from work that I do with clients is it's now easier than ever before to create multilingual information for your clients. Because you can do it through video. So stick a smartphone, selfie, do a selfie video with you have your staff do selfie videos on a regular basis in the languages that they speak. And you've got multilingual content that's really easy to access for your clients and other people much lower production threshold, then creating text based or published translation or translated materials, I think that makes a huge difference and can really cut down some of the time, but also give some some more profile to agencies and the languages that they speak. Obviously, data and client tracking, we're not doing enough, we collect lots of data, we're not really doing much analyzing it. And you know, people have talked a lot about data over the last year, I think it's in our sector, it really it really just means analyzing and looking for patterns of things that we can start to identify to help address issues that perhaps previously we didn't have access to, or we weren't, we didn't have the computer power or data to really kind of address. And there's a lot more that we can do in that that area. And there's been some research done in that looking at smartphones as well. That's an emerging technology that we really need to be thinking about more computers, desktops and laptops are really the core of the the hardware that we use. But mobile tech is something that's becoming increasingly important, not just as a consumption tool, but also as a service tool. And then, you know, when we're we also need to be thinking about things like privacy and confidentiality and all of those things. So whether we're talking about websites that are just information portals, or membership sites or bulletin boards or entire service portals that are partly open and partly closed to the public, perhaps requiring registration, we need to really start looking at technology that can help us connect with the clients and their use of technology, which I'll talk about in a few minutes as well. But we also in all of this have to be really thinking about security, privacy confidentiality. This is an overarching kind of thing and kabuki and who I think was Was it Ontario's Privacy Commissioner at one point and is now more in the private sector talks about, you know, security or privacy by design? And we need to make sure that we have that in mind when we're developing tools and products, how much data do we actually need to collect about our clients? What are we going to do with that information?
Marco Campana 5:16
And and how can we ensure that whatever we do collect and the interactions we have with clients, especially when it comes to service interactions, not just outreach or marketing or information that are actually secure, private and confidential, confidential? So speaking about clients, why don't we jump over here and look at this is something that we really need to understand for the future of our work is where clients are at. And again, we don't assess this enough, right? We know that clients are in a confusing service landscape, we know some of them are vulnerable. We know a lot now through a lot of research that's been done in Canada and around the world about their use of technology, but also their processes for finding using acting on trusting information, information sources, and that has a huge impact with the Way agencies can serve their clients. We know from some of the research that not enough clients access settlement services in this country. And so we need to be getting into their spaces. They are more technical literate in a lot of cases than we are as agencies, not necessarily as workers, but definitely as agencies. We also know that there's different levels of vulnerability amongst clients. So it ranges from PTSD or trauma and mental health all the way up to just the realities of vulnerability related to being an immigrant and not knowing the systems and not having credentials recognized and intergenerational issues. And the list goes on and on. But the reality is, is that just like the rest of us, they're finding information online, they're acting on information they find, and sometimes it's not the best information. So how can we help them access formal services, how can we ensure they understand what services are and what the expectations are, and also understanding security, privacy and confidentiality. Now, in a lot of cases, especially if it comes to refugees who have used technology, they get it, they get security, they get privacy and confidentiality, because it's it's a, it's a lifeline. And it's life threatening if that if that falls apart. So there's a lot we have to be able to do to show trust, by making sure we show that we understand their needs around the use of technology, and just how client groups are changing over time and their service needs. And the way they want to access services is changing as well. So the idea of the blended or hybrid client who will come into your office is sometimes sometimes access you online, or never come into your office that fully digital client is a reality, we're going to just be seeing more and more of and we need to be talking to our clients to find out what their preferences are around technology use and communications, but also the secondary. Okay, those are your technology preferences, but how do you want to communicate with us, so maybe they use WhatsApp, but maybe they don't want to use WhatsApp, with, with us as service providers. And so making that distinction with them and finding out as much as we can about them. So when we look at funders, funders are another really important part of this whole landscape and something that group that doesn't always get a lot of profiles now, in our case in all human services, but in the settlement sector, we're talking about all levels of government, right federal, provincial municipal, you're applying to money, there are different eligibility requirements or possibilities. And so sometimes we go to foundations or donors or we're crowdsourcing more and more trying to get private and private money. That is not necessarily tied to eligibility to serve clients who we know need need need service like international students, or temporary foreign workers, or refugee claimants or people without status, a whole host of different kinds of client groups who may or may not be more vulnerable, but certainly need the help and the services. So it's navigating that lay of the land at a time when funders are in a really mixed area around their understanding of technology for service provision. And so we've seen, for example, at the federal government level, the the Canadian digital service classroom, I can't remember specifically what it's called, but they're basically looking at how can we teach government workers about digital reality and help them become more literate. And so the hope there is as they become literate, they understand your needs a bit more around how you might want to use technology. So if you're pitching technology is hopefully eventually to a more literate audience. But the reality is, is that this is a big ecosystem that has a lot of different priorities. We have core funding, we have project funding, there's now innovation funding in some areas. And so there's a lot of it's a confusing landscape to manage sometimes, and what will be when we need to see more and more around how funders are starting to navigate the future of work. And I think that's scenario for the sector itself, to be able to start helping the funders understand where they can play a role. And what, what what organizations need from them. So for example, they're huge collectors of data, that how has that data shared in a way that's useful for the sector? I think more can be done there. They're funding established organizations, but they're also expanding to new organizations and individuals. And so the eligibility criteria for agencies to get money is changing as well. And so part of the question is around knowledge transfer knowledge capacity, So, as agencies are using and developing technology that's that's being rolled out with government funding, it would be really useful to start to see the sharing of those experiences, in my opinion, anything that's government funded, any models and technologies should then become a model or technology, or information for anyone in the sector to have access to to understand, I understand things around intellectual property and those kinds of issues. But if you're getting government money, that's a public good. And the public good should be expanded by expanding everyone's knowledge around this, I think that'd be really important. So there's also again, these emerging funding models around community investment or social bonds, social innovation, big money being put into the federal government around that, that all of these things require literacy, both at the funder level as well as the agency level. So multi year funding is something that's really important, but so too, is flexibility. In some of those funding models we hear, there's a lot of change that can happen, while while agencies are getting to know their clients and getting that data that require more rapid shifts in funding eligibility and in service provision. And so that kind of future of settlement work is something that's going to be really important to see is how can we be able to flip based on needs, and it's a lot more difficult in the institutions and the structures and ecosystems that we have right now. So when we're speaking of that ecosystem, we're talking when we talk about competitors and disruptors, this is where sometimes they have a bit of the edge. When it comes to future, we're talking in some ways about the civic tech community. So people who are creating apps, in some cases, with them for service organizations, and other cases, creating them on their own and trying to get out there to serve newcomers directly themselves. There's a lot of what we call unusual settlement actors. Now, they're not unusual anymore. But but in the past, that was the sort of mainstream settlement people but now everyone is a settlement actor, right? Every every business, every person in a community that is welcoming newcomers to those communities is is a potential competitor in some way, right. So of course, you see banks, for example, who are setting up, you know, interesting information or not just how to bank with them, but also now settlement information or mentorship or even pre arrival service information done in partnership with agency. So the, the the notion of who's acting in this space is changing constantly. We also have new and emerging communities, the needs of which will change but also have an impact on on our service provision in our service ecosystem. So as certain communities come in, perhaps as refugees, like Syrian refugee population, and are large, those are communities that have different needs have different requirements, and might look at how they can sustain and support each other in different ways. There's also the notion of individual newcomer leaders and an internal competition in those communities. And that changes as well because of technology. So the traditional leadership that we might align ourselves with her partner with might look very different when it's online. It might be someone who is in you know, an influencer in some way in the community, but not in person, not physically in person, but has you know, a website or a resource that people are really spending a lot of time with. So the newcomer networks and community websites and and WhatsApp groups and Facebook groups, these are all competition in some ways to our services, but in the same way we can, we should be looking at them as potential collaborators, because there are probably pieces that they're missing around around information referral, and around understanding systems that we could really help contribute to and play a deeper role. And if we continue, that also includes communities and cities. So communities broadly defined, but cities also municipalities we know, settlement is local, right? Integration is local. So city actors are more and more important, but they're also the most hamstrung when it comes to money and funding and things like that. Funding happens from higher levels of government, but the inclusion the integration happens locally. So we start to look at other actors in the, in the in the city for decades now, private sector, employers and companies have been have been courted, and partnered with the settlement sector and the immigrant and refugee serving sector to not only provide services and money, but also to create that, that that welcome that inclusion, and that's really important. So what are the community hubs, the the structures that have been created, like the local immigration partnerships are really having an impact on the kind of collaborative approaches that can happen. You know, how can we reach out to other unusual actors, as some people call them before? You know, how can we look at secondary migration patterns and how that impacts cities in different ways private refugee sponsors have become active in in new ways, because of the Syrian refugee influx and and they're, they're acting as settlement providers in ways that perhaps they haven't in the past and so there's lots of different actors and and trends happening in local areas that I think are really important for us to keep an eye on in terms of how it affects our work. And speaking of the work we need to look at service competencies and service standards. So I'm going to dive into service competencies first because there are the core kinds of competencies that settlement or human service workers need.
Marco Campana 14:54
You know, knowledge of Human Services openness, innovation, information and assessment skills, knowledge sub took matter knowledge, whether that's broadly of immigration and settlement or more specifically around a typical area like housing or health care or employment that you might have in an agency, certain experts and things like that. So domain or subject knowledge, but they also have to have information retrieval skills, information, literacy skills, increasingly technology, literate, literacy skills, you've got to be literate, you've got to be curious. You've got to be a lifelong learner in this environment and open to learning and changing the way you do your work as the technology and the workflows change as the competitors and disruptors and communities change, but also as your clients are changing, and as they're asking for different ways to interact with you. So as you're doing outreach to community, to vulnerable communities, what does that look like? And how can we do it differently when it includes an online or technology component? And again, overarching, all of this is cultural competency, and the security, privacy, confidentiality and literacy competencies, we need to be understanding if we're using a tool with a client to serve them. Is it a safe tool, for example, you wouldn't have a deep in depth client interaction on Facebook. It's simply not a secure service. But you might on WhatsApp, which is currently encrypted. And although owned by Facebook, and so we should continue to be wary. That's your technical literacy right and your critical thinking, currently, we know that we can have a more a safer conversation with them in that space, because it's encrypted technology. But keeping on top of that constantly is something that that is a new layer, on top of other competencies that we've always had to have as human service workers, from client service to information retrieval, to curiosity to lifelong learning, information literacy. Now, technology is another layer. So there are standards that we need to be looking at around some of this stuff. And the sector doesn't have a lot. Not many human service sectors have a lot of service standards when it comes to technology or the future, but some do, and we can harness those and look at them. So in the in the settlement sector, for example, or the immigrant and refugee serving sector. There are provincial umbrella groups and national groups like O'Casey and then Alberta and NBC, where they're looking at standards around service provision, where they're providing webinars or information or professional development around these kinds of things part of the problem, it's also an opportunity, I suppose that's pretty decentralized, it's not, it's not really cohesive across the entire sector, there isn't agreement on the standards, there's a lot of agreement around the typical kinds of, of work competencies that people have to have, but not standards around them. So we can look to other areas like information referral, so air standards, which have both individual worker and organizational standards, we can look at the social work field, which has not only standards in in ethics and client service, but now how they've applied technology, or they've looked at, they've created guidelines for how technology fits into those standards. And so we can learn a lot from other sectors around how they collect that around how they provide service around how they ensure security and privacy, and what the professional development expectations might be. So for example, in some of these cases, for more regulated professions, they have expectations for you to be constantly learning to maintain your standards. And so we need to be talking about that in all human service sectors to look at how you need to be learning and what is acceptable learning in order to maintain your, your competencies. And so again, looking at even international organizations like UNHCR, which is looking into newer technologies, like blockchain, and identity kinds of technology and the data standards that are used in international development and in refuge, international refugee flows that are very high level that have very high privacy standards, we should be learning from those and ensuring that we adhere to them ourselves in our own sector. And that has an impact on the politics and leadership. We know that in Canada in particular, we've never had an anti immigrant kind of political movement at the political level in any political party. Everyone has nuances and different granularities related to their their definition of what acceptable immigration is. But we know that at a certain level, there's with demographic shifts or immigration levels in our classes might change proportionally, here and there. But there's not. There hasn't been for some time, a commitment away from immigration. And that's really important. So when we look at politics and leadership, we need to look at the politics as in politics, like federal party platforms, or policy at the federal at all levels of government. But we also need to be looking at the leadership in our communities, in our organizations at the executive directors and boards of director, community leaders, organizational leaders, and who has control over diversity of representation or control over funding levels and how we staff emerging organizational needs related to shifts in communities or again, countries of origin languages and and other shifts in, in the nature of who we're serving. And then looking at the leadership around managing in computerized environments is something that's really important. So there, again, as I mentioned, with funders, they're there are some gaps in these areas. And so there's work that we, as people in the sector can do to help that. But they also have to help lead them, if you will. They are committed to learning this kind of stuff as we, as we've seen, but we need to be doing it more in partnership. So that is, it isn't isolated. And then the last one, let me just make sure I've got them on is media. So how can we harness media to ensure that the work that we're doing is getting out there, and we know for example, that and when I'm talking about media, we're talking about not just, you know, sort of popular or traditional media, but new media, so it's digital, it's print, it's TV, it's radio, it's podcasting, and video, but not on TV. It's like YouTube, and Vimeo, and those places and things like that, ensuring that we have connections with all types of media, whether it's mainstream media, or ethnic or community media, or all the newer kind of alternative media that's coming out, as well as individual media, right? So individuals, anyone can post, create a YouTube channel, anyone can blog, anyone can be on social media. And those people can create real, real followings and have a lot of influence and so around, that comes back to some of that technical literacy and that curiosity and those standards. And those competencies is being able to identify bad information, whether it's fake news, or just inaccurate information related to a particular service, or policy or process that someone may then act on. Do we in some cases, we've seen nonprofits like Human Rights Watch become the media themselves. So while they may rely on the media to help get the word out, they're not completely dependent on it. They're actually putting out information. They're not just curating information, but they're reporting, they're actually doing their own kinds of journalism, to get the information out there. And what's the role that human service organizations can have in that space. So for me, the future of settlement work is all of these areas, and this sort of mishmash mindmap that you see here. And it connects in a number of different ways to some other things that I've been thinking about as well. So for example, if we look at just digital messaging, it's an area there is the if we look at an iceberg model around all of this stuff, one of the things we noticed is digital messaging is really easy. You pick up your phone, you create an account, it's minutes, right to get up and running, to do digital messaging effectively in inhuman service delivery, is everything below the surface, the stuff that actually makes it work to serve clients, and that's the knowledge, the skills, the attitudes, the communication, literacy, the digital literacy, the information literacy. But all of the pieces also have to play a role. There's organizational capacity and worker capacity, it's very different to have a client interaction using something as simple as digital messaging. Compared to just having an interaction with a friend or family member, they're very different approaches, you have to keep a number of different things in mind around standards, guidelines, protocols, understanding your client technology practice, how you're using data privacy, security, encryption, all of these are under the surface, if you will. So worker capacity is really important. But so too, is the organizational capacity managers, how do you manage someone who's increasingly using technology? How do you fund from a funder capacity? How do you fund and measure outcomes when technology is the is the medium and the reality is for all of these things, as I like to say, when I speak to people is that the technology is not what you're measuring is the outcome for the client, right? Technology is just a tool just like a website, or a computer, or a phone or a printer is a piece of technology that might help move a client toward their desired outcome, we get caught up too much in talking about the technology and not just about how the technology facilitates outcomes. And I think that's important for us to be aware of. But right now, the conversation does still revolve around not just outcomes, but also technology. So when I get questions like, Well, how would you measure the effectiveness of digital messaging, you wouldn't measure the effectiveness of digital messaging, per se, you would you would measure the outcomes of client interactions that perhaps happened to be predominantly done using digital messaging. So how effective and efficient are those? And that becomes something that we also have to understand below the surface, how we measure them. So understanding free versus paid tools, right? So I can use WhatsApp. But again, what happens when,
Marco Campana 24:08
when, if Facebook decides to remove the encryption, and we've become dependent on it. So being aware of other tools that are out there that may cost us more, but may have more stability, or more control for some of the important pieces that we have around clients interactions related to privacy, security, encryption, things like that. What professional development do people do as they're moving their work from a predominantly face to face to perhaps digital one to one, one to many, many to many kinds of interactions in an online space? There's a lot around around professional development and standards and, and workplace culture that will change because of some of these things but also looking at the dialogue between us and the funder is really important, promising practices, good ideas that are out there, the knowledge repository, that knowledge, translation and exchange and sharing needs to start happening more actively. There are really interesting in the nonprofit sector around marketing and donor fundraising, and donor relations and things like that there is a ton of sharing, and be amongst agencies as well as consultants around this kind of stuff. And there's less so around digital service provision, when it's human service delivery. And I think there's more. That being said, a lot is happening below the surface, it's just not getting talked about a lot. But when you talk to people who are doing it, a lot of really interesting lessons come out, but so too, does a thirst for sharing and a thirst for learning from other people. And I think that's something that really has to happen more in all human service sectors around the use of technology and the whole discussion about the future of work and things like that. And then to technology development, you know, should we be just making everything mobile friendly? Or should we be developing apps? What's the right answers? And all of those are things that happen below the surface, when you're starting to look at these kinds of things. So even if something as simple as digital messaging Sure, I can text you, I can WhatsApp, you, I can Facebook Messenger you. But should I be developing my own digital messaging app that's HIPAA compliant and compliant with prepaid or all the other privacy laws, it depending on your jurisdiction, and things like that. So we start to see that making decisions around some of these things, while easy on the surface have a lot of related and related issues, but also core coordination needs under the surface to make it actually happen and be successful, not just for an individual or an agency, but for the sector as a whole. So when I talk about, for example, knowledge, skills and attitudes, there's a I've written a blog post about this, but one of the things that that I find is a really interesting question to ask people are what are the knowledge, skills and attitudes settlement workers need now, and then you tack on in the future, one of the things that we see is that obviously, technology starts to play more of a role if we started talking about digital settlement work. And but certainly, we also see, these are three examples of three different groups in a workshop that I did. And when I did an analysis of this, there was very little overlap in all of these, these answers, part, which suggests the complexity again, of the work, the idea that we know that the work is different, different, difficult and technical, and has a lot of moving parts and components to it. So the complexity of human service work is very high, it's only increasing and getting more complex when we start to throw digital pieces into it. And so we can learn from other areas who have done a lot of thought on this. So for example, an organization called net hope Solution Center has has put together the digital nonprofit. And they look at it from a digital skills framework, as well as a framework for for organization. So the digital skills framework, one of the first things that you might notice is technical is one piece of the pie. Technical literacy is really important. But you have to be collaborative in this space, you got to be able to solve complex problems, socially responsible, right? This is our commitment to our communities, or in the case of human service, we're being client centric, ensuring privacy, security, confidentiality, being entrepreneurial. So that's that curiosity that that creativity, that willing to to run with new ideas, which relates to creativity and innovation, those are probably a couple of the more difficult pieces just because of funder frameworks and how we've seen those evolve over time, they become more and more important that that notion of being able to experiment a bit, being able to play with new technologies or new ideas is really important. And then is your nonprofit digital. And so they, they they look at a continuous or a matrix, if you will. So if you're if you're an automated organization versus a connected organization, or just tech enabled, there are a number of different pieces that you can kind of run through in a matrix like this to look at like am I am I connected to my clients, but not really kind of digital within the my automated in my operations, but not really client centric in some ways. And so, when we talk about technology and a digital organization, you have to kind of define it for yourself. But what the way they're defining it is that a digital organization is digital, both in the way it serves its clients and the way it runs its operations, so that your back end kind of data collection and things like that is automated, or you can report really easily from them. And it's all connected to the way you're providing your services to your clients. And that's, that's again, something that's really important. So all of that connects to a framework to to for us that I'm proposing that I've come up with as part of another project, based on a capability approach that comes out of international development, that looks at how we create outcomes that are based on what we already know, in the sector, and what we need to do in order to get there. So for example, when we think about an opportunity structure, it's all the things we've talked about with funders, organizations, as well as workers. So the font the the ecosystem, the environment that that a human service worker finds themselves in is dictated by the funding structures by the IT infrastructure of the agencies that they work within the and that might mean you know, so funding might mean no smartphones, IT infrastructure might be very locked down and not able to use apps for their own if they do have phones. That Changing use of information technology by clients is a is an opportunity and a challenge that we have to be aware of how they're doing. And again, the reality of just not knowing what's possible. So knowledge sharing and transfer and in the sectors, if we do more of it, perhaps we have a better sense of what's even possible that's connected to people and organizations, assets and resources. So what are the individual Information and Technology, literacy? Abilities of workers at an agency? What's the agency infrastructure? Are they able to manage the human side of it the technical side, the policy side of using technology more actively in the work that they're doing? What kind of cohesion do we have across the sector? Again? Are these umbrella groups or other advocacy groups who are advocating to funders and policymakers about about specific issues also advocating around the funding issues related to technology or the use of technology and human services? What kind of knowledge transfer is happening in the sector? And how client centric Are we being right? Are we that? Are we that kind of digital nonprofit that has digitized our operation side but not our client side? Or are we moving towards digitizing both based on what we're learning from our own clients, and that's really important. So the levers for change? This is the big black hole of what do we put in place in order to create a better opportunity structure to enhance the assets and resources of the people who are working in this area around in particular capabilities related to information literacy, communications capabilities, content capability, it doesn't always come up. But if you're if you're communicating online, it's a different way of communicating if you're communicating and providing service using digital messaging, where you have a finite number of of characters in some cases, but certainly a finite attention span. How do you craft a message that is concise, but gets people to take the next step, which in that case, might be make a call or reply or click on a link, for example, the way you communicate changes and has to change. And then the overall ICT or information and communications technology capabilities of both of sorry, workers, agencies and funders, is something that's really important. And how do we develop those to ensure that they're at a high level they meet certain standards, we achieve certain competencies like I showed in the in the initial kind of part of this discussion, and then the outcome. So showing increases at the agency levels, in particular around information capabilities, in particular events, service capabilities, but ultimately all focused on the integration capabilities of clients. The whole point of outcomes is not just to enhance an agency's ability to use technology, but it's to use technology to ensure that our clients are settling or integrating and becoming included in their in their communities faster, in ways that they desire, and in ways that that work best for them and for the community. So this is a bit of a framework that, again, is very half baked, but it comes out of some interesting work that's been done in international development. And I will have a post explaining it in more detail. Once this other project has kind of moved forward, but but for now, what I'm proposing is we need to look at this all the players involved. Essentially what this framework is, is we need to look at everyone, all of their capacities, how we work together to create some change that leads us to better capabilities or enhanced capabilities that enhance the outcomes for for agencies as well as ultimately for clients in this. So this has been about a half an hour video just to give you a sense of my sense of the future of settlement work and all the moving parts and interconnectivity. You name it that that we need to be looking at and thinking about in order to start making this a reality in in our sector and other human services sector. I would love to hear your feedback or thoughts on this. Hopefully you've actually made it this far. I hope this wasn't too terribly boring and thanks for your time.